Here’s the transcript from Tuesday’s FMQ’s, exchange between the party leaders it’s not quite as dramatic in print but you get the gist.
The Leader of the Opposition (Andrew R.T. Davies): First Minister, we had a referendum last March on further law-making powers for this institution. You said then that the point of the referendum was to give us the tools to do the job. Seven months after the election, we have had only one piece of legislation to scrutinise in Plenary. In your legislative statement, you promised that there would be three by December. In Scotland, six Bills have come before the Parliament. Why, therefore, has your Government been so slow in bringing legislation forward?
The First Minister: We have published a detailed legislative programme, which contains a number of Bills that will be taken through during the course of this Assembly
Andrew R.T. Davies: First Minister, the question that I asked you was why you have been so slow in bringing them forward. According to the timetable for your own legislative programme, you were due to bring three Bills to Plenary by December, but we have received only one, which was presented last week. However, that is not the only area in which your Government has been slow to act. We have a review into microbusinesses, business rates, and another into city status. You supposedly went before the people of Wales in May this year with the most comprehensive manifesto—those were your words, not mine—that had been put before the people of Wales. However, all you seem to be doing is reviewing, dithering and delaying. Why are you keeping Welsh businesses waiting?
The First Minister: He seems to forget the £55 million that has been invested in small and medium-sized enterprises in Wales, the £90 million in a centrally retained capital fund, and the £1.4 billion that was announced yesterday for schools. Every time we come to the Chamber, the leader of the opposition continues with his line about health and the alleged £1 billion gap, which is something that his party used during the election campaign in May. However, despite spending twice as much as the party on this side of the Chamber, his party was still unsuccessful. When will he learn that he needs to be more than a one-trick pony?
Andrew R.T. Davies: First Minister, I have not mentioned health in the two questions that I put to you, but I am glad that you have mentioned health, because the health boards have indicated that there will be a £50 million deficit at the end of this financial year. Waiting times are going up. Therefore, if you want to talk about health, I am quite happy to do so time and again. I notice that there are representatives from the Royal College of Nursing in the public gallery. That organisation has noted that over half of its members wish to leave the Welsh NHS. [Interruption.]
Andrew R.T. Davies: Why, First Minister, are you like the proverbial bad workman, who blames his tools for doing such a poor job? It is time that you acted and showed leadership in order to lead the people of Wales
The First Minister: I will tell the leader of the opposition something: his party’s mantra, which he keeps repeating in the Chamber, cost the health spokesperson of his party his job when he lost his seat in May. I know that that was an advantage to him, because he finds himself where he is now. However, let me give him a challenge: one of the reasons why nurses in Wales are so worried is because of his party’s desire to cut the pay of nurses in Wales, thereby ensuring that nurses in Wales are paid less to do exactly the same job as those in England. This is something that was announced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer last week. I ask him now whether he will condemn the Chancellor of the Exchequer, stand up for Welsh nurses, and will he ensure that Welsh nurses are paid the same as every other nurse in the UK? [Interruption.]
The Presiding Officer: Order. You have had three questions. [Interruption.] Order. Will you please quieten down and listen to the leader of Plaid Cymru, Ieuan Wyn Jones?
The Leader of Plaid Cymru (Ieuan Wyn Jones): Yes, you might learn something by doing so. [Laughter.]
First Minister, as you know, during the current comprehensive spending review period, the Welsh block grant will reduce by 11.3 per cent, or, in real terms, £1.9 billion. We know that the Wales Audit Office has indicated that, as a result of those cuts, 21,000 jobs will be lost in the public sector in Wales. We know that, as a result of the economic crisis worsening since May, thousands more jobs will be lost in the private sector. If that was not bad enough, the autumn statement added even more gloom to the doom. First Minister, what assessment have you made in relation to the announcement of further public spending cuts by the Chancellor last week?
The First Minister: One problem that we have is that we still do not know what the revenue consequentials of the statement will be. The UK Government cannot tell us. We have asked and asked the Treasury, but it seems unable to tell us how much will accrue, in terms of revenue consequentials, to Wales. I do not know whether the Treasury knows itself where the money is coming from. That is obviously holding us back.
In terms of investment in jobs, we have the £38.9 million consequential following the announcement on the freezing of council tax in England, the £90 million that was announced as part of the centrally retained capital fund, the £55 million that is going directly to small and medium-sized enterprises as a result of the announcement made by the Minister for Business, Enterprise, Technology and Science, and the £1.4 billion that was announced for schools yesterday. That is a substantial investment in the future of Wales, and it will help to retain and create many jobs.
Ieuan Wyn Jones: Of course, the £1.4 billion that was announced yesterday still depends on local authorities putting forward business cases for their schools. If those business cases are not satisfactory, the work will not go ahead. I believe that that is the position with regard to yesterday’s statement. The question that I asked you, First Minister, was this: what is the impact on Wales from the public spending cuts announced in the autumn statement? The Chancellor said in the statement that there would be further, substantial cuts to public spending in Wales in 2015 and 2016. He is saying that they will be on the same scale as the cuts that we have already faced. Therefore, in addition to the £1.9 billion that we have already lost as a result of the current cuts, we will lose another £800 million in 2015 and 2016. What assessment have you made of the impact of those cuts on your policies?
The First Minister: There is no doubt that there will be a negative impact. The leader of Plaid Cymru is correct in his assertions regarding the cuts that will be made to the Welsh budget over the next few years. It is true to say that, despite the efforts that this Government will make to reduce poverty, we are fighting against a tide coming the other way, from the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I come back to the point about regional pay. It was quite clear last week that the objective of the Chancellor of the Exchequer is to ensure that people in Wales and some parts of England are paid less to do the same jobs as people in the south-east of England. That is unfair and inequitable, and something that we will fight tooth and nail on these benches.
Ieuan Wyn Jones: One way of approaching the cuts is to blame Westminster, which you have done. However, you also have a responsibility, because you are the First Minister of Wales. You said in the election that you would stand up for the people of Wales, but we have not seen much evidence of that so far. First Minister, as you have probably noticed, I have been questioning you every week on the economy, and I have been astonished and surprised at your Government’s failure to grasp the enormity of the crisis facing us. Let us try to put this in a nutshell. The Welsh economy will grow more slowly than at any time since the nineteenth century. Families will suffer job losses on a scale not seen since the 1980s. Our children and grandchildren will not have the life chances that we have had. Is it not time that we had a bold, ambitious and innovative Government fighting for the people of Wales? Does this exist within you, First Minister?
The First Minister: The leader of Plaid Cymru seems oblivious to the fact that £1.5 billion has been announced in support for business and jobs. I have already given him the opportunity to listen to what I just said. The reality of the situation is that there is a budget before the Assembly this afternoon for jobs and growth. I offer him the opportunity to move away from the place to which he has led his party, which will be voting with the Tories this afternoon. I can promise that I will take every opportunity, as will my party, to remind the people of Wales that, when the chips are down, Plaid will side with the Tories. [Interruption.]
The Leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats (Kirsty Williams): First Minister, at the weekend, Sir Mansel Aylward, senior adviser to the NHS in Wales, said that he was 'depressed and disappointed’ at the limited progress of change that the health service had achieved in the past few years. Do you agree with him?
The First Minister: No; I think that the health service in Wales has moved forward and continues to provide an excellent service to the people
Kirsty Williams First Minister, Sir Mansel went on to say that 'in the past we had plenty of money and perhaps we spent it wrongly’. Now, when money is tight, his warning is stark: he says that, without reform,'the richer would get better...the poorer would get poorer and their health would deteriorate’.
If statements like that do not inject a sense of urgency into the Welsh Government about reforming our health service, what will?
The First Minister: I see no evidence to support that, and I am not sure what you mean by 'reform’. If you mean reform along the lines of what is happening in England, I can tell you that we are not going to do that; that is not what the people of Wales voted for in May. Of course, we want to ensure that the health service delivers as locally and as effectively as possible, and that is what we will be looking to do over the course of the next year.
Kirsty Williams: What Professor Aylward is saying is that poor public services do poor people down the most. First Minister, this is not the first warning of this kind from a senior adviser; back in 2004, Sir Derek Wanless was commissioned by the then Minister for health to write a report on the state of the NHS in Wales. He said that things needed to change. He said then that
to write a report on the state of the NHS in Wales. He said that things needed to change. He said then that 'Wales does not get as much out of its spending as it should’.
He said then that' there is unacceptable variation in performance between NHS trusts’.He said then that' the overall conclusion is that the current position’in the Welsh NHS 'is not sustainable’.
That was almost a decade ago. He also concluded that every person and every organisation had a leadership role to play. Is it not time that you, as First Minister, and your Government, showed some leadership in protecting the services that the most vulnerable in our society depend on most?
The First Minister: If it were true that the NHS was unsustainable 10 years ago, it would not be here now. Clearly, that is not correct. We have a fine record on the NHS: waiting lists are dropping, and when it comes to treatment, we do not have any hidden waiting lists, as has been admitted by the UK Government. We have a proud record of being able to provide a holistic service for our people, including free prescriptions, which we will keep. I do not believe that there is any evidence to suggest that the NHS is unsustainable now, just as I do not believe that there was any evidence to suggest that, 10 years ago, it would become unsustainable over the course of a decade.Any source
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